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UM5304TA does not support some USB3-compatible USB4 devices

Blueskull
Star III
UM5304TA does not seems to support USB4, as I've learned the hard way, and I'm fine with it. However, the implementation which disables USB4 is buggy, as it also bans USB4 devices with USB3 support. My CalDigit TS4 dock is USB3 compatible, and it can be used perfectly with just an A to C cable, but it fails to be even enumerated on my UM5304TA.

When I plug the dock directly to the computer, nothing happens. Dmesg shows nothing (I use Linux), and the LED on the dock remains dark. However, if I plug the duck using C to A adapter then an A to C cable, it works fine, albeit without PCIe tunneling capability and display output capability, which is a PITA. I do not care about PCIe anymore, but DP over Type C should be supported, but clearly on this machine it doesn't, unless your device is USB3-only and does not advertise USB4/TBT3 capability at all.

This leads me to believe the lack of USB4 support is not a BIOS decision, but a deliberate disabling. The type C port controller (likely a TI or Cypress chip every 2 ports) is likely being installed a firmware which rejects all devices advertising TBT3 capability from enumerating. Asus can decide what feature to open to the user, but if you want to neuter a feature, please at least do it correctly.

Not only USB4-specific features don't work, this device refuses to work with USB3 and 4 compatible devices too. This is a serious bug, please fix it. I'm not asking for USB4, I'm asking for proper USB3 with DP alt mode support on USB4-capable but also USB3+DP capable devices (basically, all JHL8440-based docks). They work fine on strict USB3 ports on other computers and phones.



Regards,

B.G.
44 REPLIES 44

Falcon_ASUS
Moderator
Moderator
Asus_User0987

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/229391#Comment_229391

That is unfortunate. But my question was rather to @Falcon_ASUS who forwarded the issue to the relevant department one week ago (on. 16.09.)


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@Asus_User0987
Confirmed by the technical unit, this is because the UM5302TA does not support Thunderbolt function, the DOCK you are using needs a TBT IC to be used correctly (which needs Thunderbolt IC to convert to USB 3.2). Therefore, if you want to use this DOCK, you need to purchase a device that supports TBT function. Sorry for any inconvenience it may be caused. 

Blueskull
Star III
No. USB4 docks (based on JHL8440) do not need TBT to get USB to work. JHL8440 will happily work on USB-A ports and all its downstream USB ports will still be functional.

As I've mentioned before, UM5302TA implementes TBT blocking incorrectly, the PD controller will drop connection at the very moment the downstream device reports TBT capability, rather than negotiating for another protocol, such as USB or DP alt mode. In a compliant USB3.2 host device, the PD controller should ask the downstream device for another protocol, instead of dropping the device altogether.

It is more likely than not that the PD controller firmware is supplied by AMD with its SOC, so instead of telling us "your device sucks", you might want to escalate this problem to AMD, and let their engineers to figure out how to properly block USB4 connectivity, or better, give us USB4.

Aerial
Star I

Falcon_ASUS

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/229398#Comment_229398

@Asus_User0987

Confirmed by the technical unit, this is because the UM5302TA does not support Thunderbolt function, the DOCK you are using needs a TBT IC to be used correctly (which needs Thunderbolt IC to convert to USB 3.2). Therefore, if you want to use this DOCK, you need to purchase a device that supports TBT function. Sorry for any inconvenience it may be caused. 


View post
Is there anyone this can be escalated to who understands instructions and the problem being outlined here? Is your technical team just incompetent, do you not even understand the problem? This response is still appalling, and return windows are shrinking.

FongPoui
Rising Star II
@Blueskull
As I bought a Caldigit TS4 element hub (not dock), in the box, I got only one TS4 cable and I connect it my zenbook through TS4 port as shown in the attached picture.
As your model just has 3x USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C (support display / power delivery) and no TS4 ports, I think that the point should come from your caldigit element dock. If Caldigit provides you a USB type C cable for Gen 2, I think that it should be ok for the connection. For my case (UX8402ZE), the problem is that Sandisk extreme pro v2 needs a usb 3.2 Gen 2 and mine whose the only one usb port 3.2 Gen 2 type A can not fit to the speed of 2000 mb/s (new portable external Nveme).


jaguar717
Star II
I have also received a Zenbook UM5302TA, expecting USB 4 to work based on the Asus product description and packaging, the Asus review guide ("USB4 Ready", below), and reviewers showing that it works with the correct BIOS.
Instead, whatever method was used to remove USB4 functionality is preventing my USB3-compatible dock from connecting -- only power works, no video, similar to previous posts. This was the case as shipped, and after Windows/BIOS updates were applied.
@Falcon_ASUS I would like to know if Asus will provide the BIOS sent to reviewers or otherwise correct this, because if my Zenbook will remain crippled with less functionality than my 4 year old laptop, I need to return it.
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