Today i took some shots at night and i confirm. The result is a disaster now in Android 10

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  • JebJeb Level 1

    And in general, photo quality was worse after upgrading to A10. Resetting the Camera app did help a lot, but I feel like the contrast is still relatively too high in over half of the photos I take and the bright colors (white, light grey, other highlights) don't reflect what they actually are in real life.


  • i can say it has... hdr off hdr on hdr-- (what im calling it) hdr-- is actually darker than no hdr an its just awful as far as detail an range an smudging an color goes.... timestamped as well so no one can say i picked an chose to suite my argument

    this is when i started to notice it ...it is less detail again.. softer.. range is meh ...even my one eyed cat ... does NOT approve the lizard pic alone i took 2x... still looked just wrong.. light smudges unclear at all an the leaves on the tree.. the only place in those pics that looks ''normal'' is the center... everything else is soft almost no detail or smudged an the before an after in nightmode of my go to tree an stream... you can see alot of differences


    before an after the tree on right in backround has much less detail AFTER an the whole pic is fuzzier in general with smudge all over it both on a tripod an the leaf detail is next to nothing.... if this was maybe 20 people saying somethings wrong that would be one thing.. but theres a whole thread of people saying somethin aint right an postin pics left an right of same time differences an before an afters.... there is something wrong with the camera... it was my main selling point to buy this thing!!! an now for me i cant do squat with it... the phone itself is great... best thing ever... but there ARE INDEED CAMERA ISSUES THAT NEED FIXING

  • JebJeb Level 1

    So I went out to look at Christmas lights and tried to take some photos tonight. Unfortunately, picture quality was below par. :-/

    While some pictures turned out decent, perhaps some adjustments need to be made to the algorithms when the camera notices slight movements in the phone, particularly in low light scenarios.


  • @CH_ASUS

    Can you test the Q camera implementation against the 189 firmware from August?

    That 189 version seemed to provide a good balance between noise reduction and detail before the aggressive noise reduction of later firmwares kicked in.

    Separately, would it be possible to build in professional level noise reduction controls for people to crowd source and test their own approaches to dial in settings to their own taste?

    This is one advantage of the robust testing and experimenting around Gcam. I have yet to see a company take that open source approach to give users pro level controls. As effective as AI image algorithms can be, it would be pretty awesome and a first for a company to give users true professional control to create looks.

    I come from the photo/film world, and professional control over saturation, noise reduction, white balance, and other exposure tools are standard for giving shooters the ability to capture images that meet their tastes.

    Thanks for trying to figure this out, and I'm looking forward to the next update to keep improving image quality. ?

  • JebJeb Level 1

    Any updates on the situation?

  • GamerArcGamerArc Level 2
    edited December 2019

    @Anders_ASUS This is in reference to my post calling Asus 6z camera shit and your reply to that post...

    Since months now, rhere is no improvement in the camera quality. Tons of threads and posts have been regarding this already.

    Well you wanted constructive criticism...I gave one. The camera quality of Asus6z compared to its contemporaries is literally shit. No two ways about it...Be it its ability to focus on documents, night shots etc.. I have in the past pointed out specific issues which have never been fixed...


    So yeah, since the previous instances when i gave Asus specific feedback, it did not care to fix it. So now i call the camera what it literally is...Shit.....



    I don't care if you care or not about my feedback. The whole communutiy is seeing the lack of work from Asus concerning the camera department. One of your mod, once posted that you dont5 have the human and financial resources to optimize the camera the way samsung,huawei and one plus does...that did not stop you from pricing it above one plus 7 of same storage capacity....


    So stop making flimsy excuses and posting smartass comments and work on the camera....We have paid a premium for this device and expect it to be backed up by the software improvements..which although have come in other areas but have been literally absent in camera department....


    The day I see improvement in the camera, i will take back my comments...Till then..i don't care how you feel about my comment..I will call spade a spade till then......which in this case is shoddy development work in camera department from Asus.


    Ps: camera was supposed to be the USP of this device...well its actually the worst performing aspect of 6Z.

  • CH_ASUSCH_ASUS admin
    edited December 2019

    Can you please help differentiate between HDR Auto, HDR off and HDR++ (HDR+ Enhanced).

    These are distinctly different (depending on scene).



    ---


    Are there camera changes in P? Yes, there have been plenty, from day 1 (not necessarily every update).

    But what we are discussing here is Q from latest P - correct? Yes, some want to throw in more variables - P-189, this and that, and we'll try to get to those as well, but in order to systematically discuss this topic, throwing things around is not helpful.



    We cant fix what we havent changed in the code. What we are trying to do here is to help everyone figure out where the discrepancies are.


    We've already said that HDR+ Enhanced has been adjusted , and from our own testing we see generally this being visible in shots where there is a strong light source in the scene (like the sun).

    The changes in HDR++ (HDR+ Enhanced) is to give the scene more contrast in "most" situations (no, it wont be in all ) due to feedback that HDR++ generally produced "flattish and bright" images.


    For Auto and Night Mode, there are no changes made from P to Q (latest P to Q).

    If some dont want to believe this, then no matter what we do or say here won't help you.


    ---

    Some users say they notice camera quality improving if they clear their camera settings (by clear camera app data) and/or restore camera settings to default (inside Camera app's own settings).

    It has also been mentioned that there is a suspicion that those units which experience performance issues would have camera image quality results impacted.


    These speculations I currently have no judgment on, whether it is possible or not. From what we know, it is unlikely - but I wouldnt rule it out as impossible.

    These issues might resolve themselves then by a device reset, or not, or some may have their issues resolved with a future update.


    However they still do not change that from what we know, our camera team has not altered any algorithms for Night Mode or Auto, or low light, or noise reduction/etc. going specifically from P to Q.

  • @isaac.brody

    All shots by hand. All shots confirmed that in HDR++ mode it is using HDR++ by checking the processing cue.

    (Camera will still judge if it should use HDR++ or HDR, judging mechanisms unchanged from P to Q - so not 100% every shot will be HDR++ even if this toggle is selected)


    P (189) HDR++


    Q (HDR++)


  • Indoor under direct sunlight. Hand held, rested against the table. Focus on the right figurine's head.

    HDR++ mode (processing wheel appeared) , all shots.


    P-189


    P-191

    Q (I accidentaly set the ratio to 1:1 for the Q shot, but as aspect ratios are just clean auto crops, it shouldnt have affected the result).



  • Using 3rd party cameras through say Instagram , Snapchat, Facebook Messenger, etc. don't yield good result. They don't pass through the same tuning either (although I dont have an explanation as to why).


    Would you be so kind as to try with the stock Asus camera app?

  • Thanks, @CH_ASUS for doing these tests.

    I'm noticing that the noise reduction is indeed less aggressive in 189/191 versus Q. In your last photos with the figures, I can see less noise reduction in the background including what looks like some chroma noise in 189, while Q has noise reduction that kills the chroma noise along with detail.

    Additionally, the higher contrast in Q gives a perceptual sharpness bump but also looks like it reduces dynamic range and details. I'm wondering if the additional contrast is throwing out detail that is then smoothed over with the higher noise reduction.

    One solution would be to add picture profiles to the settings that allow users to pick their poison. Some folks might like the higher contrast more aggressive noise reduction, while others might prefer a flatter profile with less noise reduction that captures a good base image that is then finished in Snapseed/Lightroom.

    Out of curiosity, how is testing done to improve image quality?

  • The 3rd party app camera experience was far superior in Android 9. I know 3rd party camera apps don't go under the same tuning the stock camera does but, I just can't help but notice the worsening quality after the latest Android 10 update. Even though the you and the camera team at Asus say you guys haven't changed any coding for the camera, I am sure something ELSE must've changed the camera quality. As for stock quality camera, the pics there are also overly exposed. I can try to post some example pictures later. I already have posted multiple pictures here on the thread somewhere so maybe you can look back at those?? I know you guys are hard working and I respect you all. But if these many people say the camera experience is this much different then there has to be something that is causing it. Not our hardware or software. Hopefully you guys can release an update soon fixing all of the latest bugs :) - Best regards Branden.

  • I seconded this. I would like to have the option to choose processing profile too.

  • mastershumastershu Level 2
    edited December 2019


    @CH_ASUS

    hdr off is with man farthest away in pic hdr on is when man is closest in pic then hdr --

  • @CH_ASUS I did a 100 percent crop on these images you posted. 189 is on the left, Q on the right.

    Compared side by side 189 is of course flatter, but it also retains a lot more detail in the shadows.

    And In 189 you can also see detail in the bark of the tree and on the snow. Overall it looks like it's resolving fine detail and sharpness much better than Q.

    The Q version has much higher contrast at the expense of dynamic range and details in the shadows. That lost detail and the noise reduction resolves a softer image, especially on the tree bark and the snow.


  • HDR++ algorithms have changed as I mentioned - HDR++ should not be used in low light as (even in P) those algorithms are not made for low light.


    A side effect of the increased contrast could be that in certain scenes the noise will go up on the dark parts - it could be so yes.


    As for Night Mode and Auto, still shouldnt be any sweeping changes except "on device" variations.. like if you take 10 photos of the same thing, not all 10 will turn out the same (even with the same phone/firmware).

  • Even if the camera team didnt adjust the "ASUS PART" of the image quality (this refers to Asus Camera) - can there be changes inside Android 10 that would affect how 3rd party apps' cameras behave?


    I agree, I would not rule it out as not possible. But I think the discussions like these are what is most constructive.


    We are not saying "you cannot see any difference!" or "your eyes are wrong!". We are simply saying what we've done and what we haven't done - but there could ofc be many more factors (and generally is) to these observations.


    As for 3rd party apps, we'll try to do some tests as well from our end and see what we can do. Is it any specific app you are seeing the most difference? Facebook Messenger, or Snapchat, or Instagram? Or doesn't matter / similar between them?

  • CH_ASUSCH_ASUS admin
    edited December 2019

    Yes, HDR++ has changed.

    But you can also see the sky in the background on Q - it preserved that better.

    HDR++ generally focuses on preserving highlights more than shadows. And even more so in Q.



    As far as I know, we've said from the start that Auto, NightMode havent changed (as all of this started with low light).

    HDR++ has been changed. If you used HDR++ in the dark, results may differ now.


    Auto has not changed. Auto mode does not use HDR++ in any circumstance (from what I am aware).

    It will use the normal HDR if deemed necessary. As such HDR++ is strictly "opt-in" by the user.

This discussion has been closed.