Today i took some shots at night and i confirm. The result is a disaster now in Android 10

doublem101doublem101 Level 1
edited October 2020 in ZenFone 6

I've been reading all the posts about the bad photo quality on Android 10 but honestly i didn't had the chance to test it in detail before.

However today, i had a spare time and it only took a couple minutes to see what everyone are talking about.

I already had taken some indoor photos and i noticed the high noise in darker areas but i went outside and i couldn't believe on what i was looking at. Slightly blured photos (like a shaken photo) and no detail at all, it looked like a watercolour painting. On some photos, darker areas were pinkish, something that i complained before in Pro mode on long exposures but never noticed it in any other mode.

However, i don't know if it's related or not but the few Gcam versions that works, aren't much better neither. Still a little better than stock app but really really worse than before. I'm not sure if they aren't already optimized or somehow related with the stock app bad quality. I don't know how Gcam works but what if the main issue isn't the stock APP itself but something behind it that makes Gcam works so bad also?

Sorry Asus, but i can't accept this quality from €500 device. One of the things that made me buy this phone was his night photo quality and now it takes worse photos than my old device?

I know you are looking at the problem already but i become frightened when i read that the differences you found aren't considerable. They are. If you didn't tested yet at night, outside, please do it. Theres were i found the major differences, not indoor.

I don't a have photo took in Android 9 under the same circunstances in this same places but please look at this photo. This isn't acceptable at all.


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Comments


  • I assume this is taken with Night Mode? Or?

    And every photo is like this with night mode (now I dont mean every photo of the same scene, just every photo in a variety of scenes) ? Or is it that some photos come out worse than expected?

  • doublem101doublem101 Level 1
    edited December 2019

    Hi @CH_ASUS

    Yes the photo was taken with Night Mode on, handled.

    I didn't take many photos but the ones i took gave me the same result. They seemed washed out with no details like they were submited to a really high compression.

    But the funny thing i found later, it seems this issue isn't present in "tripod" mode. I think it isn't as good as before but cleary a lot better than handled mode.

    Before the update, i think there were some differences between handled and tripod mode but most about the "clarity" of the photo. Now, how you can see, both seems like were taken with two different devices. The difference in details/textures is huge when zooming in. First was taken handled, second, tripod mode. In handled mode, every detail is gone and the photo is washed out.



  • I suspect that the night mode shot - wasnt actually night mode.


    Even in Night Mode, our camera will make a judgement on whether or not Night Mode (handheld) will produce a better shot - for example depending on how much hand-shaking, available light, too much light, and so on.


    At times it will in Night mode even take "Auto". Producing a result you did not expect. You can generally notice this when the Night Mode takes "really fast" to complete. When it is on a tripod , and still, camera will know this, and show a tripod icon, and also open up Night Mode for longer exposures.


    We've also feedback to our team that Night Mode might be too aggressive in "not using more frames" and that it may need some more tuning..

  • OPCOPC Level 4

    Night mode on tripod gives good results. Night mode handheld I noticed shift in focus by simply touching the shutter icon. The result being bluriness and lack of detail. I don't use tripod but I always provide firm support and results are good. A reason for that can also be to some extent in high pixel count (48mp). It's much easier to miss focus due to vibration.

  • In Night Mode the phone will take multiple shots - and ZenFone 6 does not have OIS , making it more succeptible to hand-shake.

    Even as simple as pressing the shutter button can unintentionally case tiny shakes. With that said, Night mode works best in a moderately to low lighted scene (not dark) with a higher dynamic range

  • doublem101doublem101 Level 1
    edited December 2019

    @CH_ASUS Thanks for the explanation about how Night Mode works.

    About what @OPC mentioned i'm getting the same result, now it seems every single movement can make the image something blury. Sometimes i even use the timer but it doesn't seem to help so much. I'm not sure it was happening before on Pie but i think not. Too bad i don't have two phones or the time to downgrade to Pie to do some serious tests but the final result in handled mode is really different for worse, on Q.

    Maybe it's due to some aggressive noise reduction like i think you already mentioned, maybe the algorithm doesn't stack all shoots so well, i don't know... but these handled images really lack any detail when zooming in.

    @CH_ASUS if theres any beta testing of a new camera app or so, i don't mind to test it and give my honest feedback.

  • As every scene and every situation is rather unique - it is quite difficult for us to make specific comments on every photo and situation that appears.


    However, we did not change any algorithms going to Android 10. As such, there should really not be any differences between photos taken in latest P or Q. Other than changes which can occur even within same version, like even if you take 10 separate shots of any given scene, they can still turn out slightly different.


    We'll try to show some examples between a device on P and one on Q. Work in progress.

  • _jis__jis_ Level 5
    edited December 2019

    I have a very good experience with this handy mini tripod, which I bought on sale. For both night photos and other uses. Look at product images.

    https://www.czc.cz/vanguard-stolni-stativ-tripod-vesta-tt1-bila-perlet/257999/produkt

  • Today i did some more tests and all the photos i took, the difference between handled and tripod mode, was huge again.

    I'm not sure if it was so huge in P but i don't remember to be.

    I know tripod mode shots should be better but the difference should be so big? We are talking about a massive difference. It seems something isn't right...

    To make sure it wasn't taken in Auto Mode even it was in Night Mode, i shoot in Auto also and it's slightly worse than Night Mode, so i guess Night mode was used.

    Auto / Night handled / Night tripod

    Lets look at the details:


  • JebJeb Level 1

    I'm having the same problem. Please fix!

    I see the Zenfone 6 default camera app is in the Play Store as the Asus PixelMaster camera app. Perhaps a patch can be pushed out through the Play Store?

  • JebJeb Level 1

    I'm not going to buy a tripod for my phone. That defeats the purpose of having a good camera on my phone.

    If I want to use a tripod, I might as well buy a decent point-and-shoot to go with it.

  • JebJeb Level 1

    I think the camera performance issue is linked to overall general performance problems of Android 10 on the Asus Zenfone 6, as the Zenfone 6 heavily relies on software for the camera due to lack of OIS.

    https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/13123/performance-issues-in-asus-zenfone-6-after-upgrading-to-android-10#latest

  • CH_ASUSCH_ASUS admin
    edited December 2019

    We've had some calls and syncing with our camera team.


    From P to Q, we have not changed the algortihms or any other image related tuning for night mode or auto low light.

    They should / do perform equally. In earlier P (.191 for example) , there was this pink hue in longer exposures (Night Mode, Pro Mode long exposure) - this was addressed in Q.


    Your experience may tell you differently but from our intentions - there are no changes. And really, there is no reason for the camera team to make this up.


    We've done some testing ourselves, we will do more also, but here are some you may consider. These are all done in hand-held - and three photos taken each time - to show more of an average. Variations will exist even between shots for same phone/firmware.

    Tripod will be sharper than hand-held.


    Android P , (.191) AUTO


    Android P (.191) Night Mode



    Android Q Auto


    Android Q Night Mode


  • doublem101doublem101 Level 1
    edited December 2019

    @CH_ASUS i had a quick look at the photos and at the first glance (i will check in more detail later), it seems theres not much difference in Night Mode but look at Auto Mode, something is very noticiable between P and Q. Look at the crane. In Q it has a lot less details on all the 3 photos, it seems it almost vanished. If the algorithm hasn't changed at all, how that difference can be explained? Something doesn't match.

    Regarding the difference between handled mode and tripod mode, if that's normal, i confess i'm a bit disappointed. I know tripod mode should give better results but we are talking about a massive difference which can be seen on the examples i provided earlier. I'm not talking about the "lightness" but the details. All of them are gone. It seems the final result is a really bad watercolor painting. If theres no way to improve it, i hope at least we can use Gcam in a near future to have a decent handled mode...

    Best

  • _jis__jis_ Level 5
    edited December 2019

    Regarding the difference between handled mode and tripod mode, if that's normal, i confess i'm a bit dissapointed. I know tripod mode should give better results but we are talking about a massive difference which can be seen on the examples i provided earlier. I'm not talking about the "lightness" but the details. All of them are gone. It seems the final result is a really bad watercolor painting.

    ZF6 camera does not have optical stabilization, but tripod eliminates this problem completely, hence I recommended one in my previous post, I really have a very good experience with it and the night photos are then completely about something else.

    In addition, the Asus camera app recognizes that the phone is stationary in a tripod and adjusts the subsequent image processing accordingly. This makes the difference from hand-held photos even more apparent.

    Regarding the difference between handled mode and tripod mode, if that's normal, i confess i'm a bit dissapointed.

    So actually the opposite is true Asus camera app is able to make the most of a tripod as opposed to other apps. I like this ability so much.

  • Might be, might be in device variation depending on how I held the phones at that time since I actually just snapped three pictures each at once, without "repositioning" the hand/phone in between.


    Our camera team still maintains no changes to algorithms for image quality were adjusted.


    There were ofc some changes made over time, like the pink tint that occurred in the later P-builds was corrected in Q.

    Now, you may ofc say this "must have" introduced these side-effects - and I also did ask specifically this , but the answer is that no, they do not believe any such side effects would occur.


    We have the devices on hand, which obviously I understand most of you do not. My point is it can be "same device" variation more than anything else. ,we'll just take more shots and share with you here and you can judge for yourselves.

  • JebJeb Level 1

    Camera quality may look "okay" from a small thumbnail, but please open the full-sized preview. You'll quickly notice blurred lines, poor color representation, and poor white balance.

    Please note the wall in the background is supposed to be white.

  • Touch to focus - on the bush ~center of each image.

    Lower and raise phone after each photo. 3 photos per phone.


    Android P Auto


    Android Q Auto

    .


  • _jis__jis_ Level 5
    edited December 2019

    The lawn under the four trunks in the upper right corner has a little detail in the A9 here and there, but in the pictures taken on the A10, it is completely washed out due to more aggressive noise removal. But this is something that has already been confirmed by @Anders_ASUS that the A10 has more aggressive noise removal and that it will be discussed with developers as I remember from other thread.

    https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/30635/#Comment_30635

  • Hi, all! I have also been using the camera a lot and I can definitely say that I've noticed a few exposure problems. In Android 9, whenever I took pictures of things or people, their skin would come out totally perfect. It looked natural and everything. In Android 10 tho however, the exposure is absolutely crazy. Normal pictures are way over exposed and it makes people's skin looks weird and crazy. I understand if you say that you guys didn't change the algorithm of the camera or anything from Android 9 but, please look into the image quality in normal lighting in Android 10 compared to Android 9. Android 9 was phenomenal. Idk what happened with Android 10. Everybody's talking about night mode so much but I don't see anybody mentioning how the camera in normal lighting got worse as well. I hope you guys can work on the entire camera in general :(

    I understand you guys are a very hard working team. Please take your time and let is know how things go. Best regards, Branden.

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