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Asus does not care at all
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11-18-2019 11:22 PM
Inspite of reaching out on social media and here asus team just doesn't want accept the fact that the camera is messed up with no support for Google camera. The stock camera has gone from a flagship level to a mid range level but all asus cares about is organizing fan meets with Geeky Ranjit. I thought you guys gave a bunch of phones to Dev's to get custom rom support which never came out. Earlier atleast we were able to use the gcam now thanks to you guys that also doesn't work. I have paid for a premium device but thanks to you guys who are making it average day by day. Thank you for conning your users.
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11-21-2019 12:31 PM
gunmanrishiIt seems I owe you an apology. I've seen the other thread that compares results with 5Z and man, that's a big difference. Sorry for criticizing you in that regard.https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/29240#Comment_29240
Buddy thank you for coming out and supporting us. It seems us raising a question has hurt their ego. They were in a dreamland thinking the devices priced with 6z don't have a good camera. Reality check @Anders_ASUS even a $110 dollar phone from realme has a better dynamic range and mind you i am comparing 6z with a device which is priced quarter of the price of 6z. If you can keep your ego aside and help in resolving this situation it would be helpful. #dontkillagreatdevice
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11-21-2019 07:25 PM
As I have said and as the photo points out, no significant changes in stock camera app, but GCam broken. Have I spotted split personalities in different threads? You’ll be the judge.
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11-22-2019 09:15 AM
Anders_ASUSCould you kindly check my new post? Referring to your 2nd paragraph , ive compared with an asus phone itself that sells at half the price of zf6 in my country , now Let's talk ?It has to be emphasized that we have nothing to do with Gcam. You can't expect it to always run perfectly because it's not a supported software. It's all up to the port developers to make it work when they feel like it. We haven't blocked anything and we're not allowed to actively trying to make this software work with our phones. It has to be done by people who have nothing to do with our organization.
The comparisons between our software and Googles are not fair. Everyone know that Google are the best when it comes to camera software for phones. It would be much more interesting to see comparisons to similar prized phones, both running stock camera software. Then we may talk.
If you want to find out how to run a stable GCam on your ZenFone 6 with Android 10, then you need to talk to the port developers. I know that it works. It's all i can say.
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11-26-2019 03:16 AM
ok, let me give you a preview of what I've been doing.
TL;DR (too long didn't read) = There are differences between Pie and Q but they are small, much smaller than you think. We will investigate further on how to improve. I will also ask them to double check our camera API's for improved compatibility with 3rd party camera apps
The much longer version
I've walked around the office with ZenFone 6 on Pie 1908.191 update, ZenFone 6 on latest Q 1910.68 update. ZenFone 5z on Q 20191115, OnePlus 7Pro on Q 02_BETA_6 and Mi 9 on Q 190825002. I've taken both indoor photos and several photos out of an open window. Each time with less daylight.
For every scene there's a new winner. The same scene during different hours with changing lighting conditions could sometimes present a new winner but it's also subjective which one you prefer. I think overall I would say that OnePlus 7Pro has the best camera but as I said, this is not always the case and in many cases, the difference between all phones is smaller than you think.
ZenFone 5z is not by any means a bad camera. During some conditions it performed exceptionally well. The problem is that no one expects it to. So in a scene were you only take one photo which ZenFone 5z and 6 and ZenFone 6 gets it wrong, it could very well be that ZenFone 5z is the winner. But if you move the camera way and back or focus on something, then you normally correct this. In some scenes where you photograph something with a lot of texture, ZenFone 5 could very well be the winner because it has a lot less noise reduction which results in more details.
I need to spend more time analyzing the photos but I can conclude already now, and this is the most important part for this thread, that the difference between ZenFone 6 with Pie and Q is not the major difference that you think. In most cases there's no difference at all. Sometimes Q win and sometimes Pie win. There are software differences but they are minor compared to how you take the image.
It happened sometimes that pie took the better photo and my reaction was always "what!?!" Every time I took one new set to confirm if it really was better and every time the differences were erased in the next set of photos. The conclusion is that it takes so little handshake that even a surgeon can have different results. I was leaning both body and hands against doors and window frames while using a shutter timer to make sure I was as steady as possible to minimize unfair differences.
I do notice that the AI may have a little different approach in Pie and Q but moving the camera away and then back again can make both recognize the scene in the same way. I'm not talking about which AI logo you see but the actual outcome of the image. I also believe there's a tad more noise reduction in the Q version compared to Pie and this can in some scenarios make a difference on textured surfaces. This is something I will feedback to our camera devs.
Another thing which both Pie and Q has is that the scene needs to be really dark for night mode to activate, or it will just take a normal HDR photo. You notice this when there's no circle loading. So in some scenarios, 5z could actually show a brighter photo. This is something my team asked the camera team to consider changing before and we will remind them again.
It feels like Pie spends more time in night mode than on Q but it's actually only two different types of approach on the animation. They spend the same amount of time taking and processing the image.
I will post images later but all in all, I can already conclude that the differences that you're experiencing are not there. I've seen all your comparison images but to these i reply that it's not hard to find instances when one camera is better than the other if you take enough of them. There are so many factors involved. If you experience that your camera performance has gone down, then it's only natural that you choose the samples that strengthens the point you want to make. If I wanted to prove that Pie is better than Q, then I might not have bothered to go back and take a new set of photos to double check if it was me shaking or a difference in the camera performance.
I do believe that we can make improvements to the AI because sometimes, it analyzes the scene incorrectly. It could be that while changing how the AI is supposed to detect a specific scene, we unintentionally changed something somewhere else (minor differences). I also believe we sometimes go a little too far with our noise reduction algorithms and that it may recognize texture as noise. I would rather lower this setting to show some noise and keep more details but it's easy for me to say and much harder for our camera team to solve. I have some observations and suggestions from my comparison that I hope can help them improve but it's too early to say.
Regarding GCam, this is a special subject. We haven't actively made any changes to prevent GCam from running and we can't actively focus on making it work because of the circumstances. What I can do is to ask our camera team if there's anything in our camera API's that may prevent 3rd party camera apps in general from working.
I hope this update makes you a little happier as I'm doing my best to make your voices heard.
TL;DR (too long didn't read) = There are differences between Pie and Q but they are small, much smaller than you think. We will investigate further on how to improve. I will also ask them to double check our camera API's for improved compatibility with 3rd party camera apps
The much longer version
I've walked around the office with ZenFone 6 on Pie 1908.191 update, ZenFone 6 on latest Q 1910.68 update. ZenFone 5z on Q 20191115, OnePlus 7Pro on Q 02_BETA_6 and Mi 9 on Q 190825002. I've taken both indoor photos and several photos out of an open window. Each time with less daylight.
For every scene there's a new winner. The same scene during different hours with changing lighting conditions could sometimes present a new winner but it's also subjective which one you prefer. I think overall I would say that OnePlus 7Pro has the best camera but as I said, this is not always the case and in many cases, the difference between all phones is smaller than you think.
ZenFone 5z is not by any means a bad camera. During some conditions it performed exceptionally well. The problem is that no one expects it to. So in a scene were you only take one photo which ZenFone 5z and 6 and ZenFone 6 gets it wrong, it could very well be that ZenFone 5z is the winner. But if you move the camera way and back or focus on something, then you normally correct this. In some scenes where you photograph something with a lot of texture, ZenFone 5 could very well be the winner because it has a lot less noise reduction which results in more details.
I need to spend more time analyzing the photos but I can conclude already now, and this is the most important part for this thread, that the difference between ZenFone 6 with Pie and Q is not the major difference that you think. In most cases there's no difference at all. Sometimes Q win and sometimes Pie win. There are software differences but they are minor compared to how you take the image.
It happened sometimes that pie took the better photo and my reaction was always "what!?!" Every time I took one new set to confirm if it really was better and every time the differences were erased in the next set of photos. The conclusion is that it takes so little handshake that even a surgeon can have different results. I was leaning both body and hands against doors and window frames while using a shutter timer to make sure I was as steady as possible to minimize unfair differences.
I do notice that the AI may have a little different approach in Pie and Q but moving the camera away and then back again can make both recognize the scene in the same way. I'm not talking about which AI logo you see but the actual outcome of the image. I also believe there's a tad more noise reduction in the Q version compared to Pie and this can in some scenarios make a difference on textured surfaces. This is something I will feedback to our camera devs.
Another thing which both Pie and Q has is that the scene needs to be really dark for night mode to activate, or it will just take a normal HDR photo. You notice this when there's no circle loading. So in some scenarios, 5z could actually show a brighter photo. This is something my team asked the camera team to consider changing before and we will remind them again.
It feels like Pie spends more time in night mode than on Q but it's actually only two different types of approach on the animation. They spend the same amount of time taking and processing the image.
I will post images later but all in all, I can already conclude that the differences that you're experiencing are not there. I've seen all your comparison images but to these i reply that it's not hard to find instances when one camera is better than the other if you take enough of them. There are so many factors involved. If you experience that your camera performance has gone down, then it's only natural that you choose the samples that strengthens the point you want to make. If I wanted to prove that Pie is better than Q, then I might not have bothered to go back and take a new set of photos to double check if it was me shaking or a difference in the camera performance.
I do believe that we can make improvements to the AI because sometimes, it analyzes the scene incorrectly. It could be that while changing how the AI is supposed to detect a specific scene, we unintentionally changed something somewhere else (minor differences). I also believe we sometimes go a little too far with our noise reduction algorithms and that it may recognize texture as noise. I would rather lower this setting to show some noise and keep more details but it's easy for me to say and much harder for our camera team to solve. I have some observations and suggestions from my comparison that I hope can help them improve but it's too early to say.
Regarding GCam, this is a special subject. We haven't actively made any changes to prevent GCam from running and we can't actively focus on making it work because of the circumstances. What I can do is to ask our camera team if there's anything in our camera API's that may prevent 3rd party camera apps in general from working.
I hope this update makes you a little happier as I'm doing my best to make your voices heard.
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11-26-2019 08:38 AM
@Anders_ASUS thanks for replying and taking your time
Really appreciate your efforts , we respect it . Hoping for more improvements in camera
Here are a few suggestions
hdr ++ isn't properly working in Q at the moment , its more contrasty than regular hdr+ (supposed to be opposite) shadows are more darker in hdr++ and there is slight pink tint too (shadows should be brighter and obviously without tints)
About night mode , noise reduction is waay to much man , actually in indoor lighting auto mode has more details and sharpness than night mode , i do see that you guys are trying to push out a more cleaner image through night mode , but we d rather have more details instead and that's the purpose of us wasting more time at snapping a night mode pic than a regular pic . Actually this could also be due to using a slower shutter speed in night mode or something off with image stacking , not sure , finding the cause is not my job anyway
AND MAINLY : SELFIES!!! HDR ON is changing my whole skin tone man , hdr literally works like a beauty mode effect now , its making making my skin whiter , I'm forced to use hdr off due to that , I've attatched documents , dont mind me , just for sample purposes
Also there are pink tints and green tints in night mode , in "not even that dark" conditions , look into that too.
An overall reduction in noise reduction will also give a big boost to camera , there is noise reduction happening even in broad outdoors , and it's killing the minor details and giving a watercolor look.
Hope you take these suggestions positively , and use it to improve our experience thanks .
Attaching samples of selfie hdr issue , give it a look.
Hdr off selfie scene 1.jpg
Hdr on selfie scene 1.jpg
HDR off selfie scene 2.jpg
Hdr on selfie scene 2.jpg
Guess we should change the title of the thread (≧▽≦)
Expecting quick reply , thanks 🙂 we need yo help
Really appreciate your efforts , we respect it . Hoping for more improvements in camera
Here are a few suggestions
hdr ++ isn't properly working in Q at the moment , its more contrasty than regular hdr+ (supposed to be opposite) shadows are more darker in hdr++ and there is slight pink tint too (shadows should be brighter and obviously without tints)
About night mode , noise reduction is waay to much man , actually in indoor lighting auto mode has more details and sharpness than night mode , i do see that you guys are trying to push out a more cleaner image through night mode , but we d rather have more details instead and that's the purpose of us wasting more time at snapping a night mode pic than a regular pic . Actually this could also be due to using a slower shutter speed in night mode or something off with image stacking , not sure , finding the cause is not my job anyway
AND MAINLY : SELFIES!!! HDR ON is changing my whole skin tone man , hdr literally works like a beauty mode effect now , its making making my skin whiter , I'm forced to use hdr off due to that , I've attatched documents , dont mind me , just for sample purposes
Also there are pink tints and green tints in night mode , in "not even that dark" conditions , look into that too.
An overall reduction in noise reduction will also give a big boost to camera , there is noise reduction happening even in broad outdoors , and it's killing the minor details and giving a watercolor look.
Hope you take these suggestions positively , and use it to improve our experience thanks .
Attaching samples of selfie hdr issue , give it a look.
Hdr off selfie scene 1.jpg
Hdr on selfie scene 1.jpg
HDR off selfie scene 2.jpg
Hdr on selfie scene 2.jpg
Guess we should change the title of the thread (≧▽≦)
Expecting quick reply , thanks 🙂 we need yo help
