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Rog 5 topic part 2
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05-12-2021 03:51 AM
Since Anders has a strong tendency to simply post a reply and lock threads so that he has the last word in the hopes that nobody can correct his reply I decided lets have another go!
Lets take apart his quotes shall we?
True that opinions are subjective 😉 What I meant to say is that everything I say will be seen as subjective.
Once you back it up with facts, there is nothing subjective about it, however I don't see you do that a whole lot.
Anyway, the truth is that most of what you say isn't correct. You get bits and pieces of information here and there looking at reviews, teardowns, forum comments (which aren't necessarily correct) and then you fill the holes with what you believe to sound logical. But it isn't facts. This is important to remember and it's easy to make this mistake. I've done it myself many times just to be proved wrong.
The thing is, if multiple reviews, forum comments and teardowns all tell the same story then you better come up with something better than "it isn't correct". How about you disprove the claims? Should be easy right? Do the test "proper" and disprove it? You won't do it as you know exacly that isnt the case.
None of the other brands have the same focus on the WW Rom as we do. The truth can only be told by someone who has used all of these phones as their main device and who has them all at hand to compare whenever they find bugs or differences in features. Everything else is purely based on whatever article or forum thread you might have stumbled upon. No other gaming phone brand has as many users outside of China as ASUS so you will ofc find a lot more to read about ROG Phone than any of the others. And regarding the ROG Phone 3 software charging issue. It has been solved. The reports you've seen since have all been hardware related and covered by warranty.
I don't doubt ASUS sells more phones outside the Asian market than other brands, but I fail to see how that is related to my point of poor software support. You're completely missing the point. As for the Rog3 charging issue, interesting statement. Since the complaints about the charging issue did decrease I would tend to believe it, so at least kudos for fixing that if it's true.
ROG 5 has VoLTE support for Telia in Denmark and maybe even the carrier 3.dk. It's great that your brothers old phone supports VoLTE but that doesn't say anything about their latest model as VoLTE needs to be approved by the carrier and model by model.
Little weird that you don't focus on the largest provider that is TDC, but then again taking denmark as an example is a little weird to begin with considering how easy we are to handle. However you're completely dodging my point. The example of voLTE is to demonstrate the lack of software support. Rog2 still has no proper VoLTE coverage, its a 2 year old phone. Whats the excuse there?
It's no secret that the latest SoC runs very hot and when it comes to stability/throttling during intensive workload like 3Dmark stresstest, you have three choices. 1. High fan noise 2. Burn your hands while gaming or 3. Accept that the CPU might throttle to keep comfortable temp but you will still have higher performance than ROG Phone 3. We're not in the business of making worse products. Then we might as well give up as our competitors will run us over. But I can tell you that some of these youtube tests makes me go Uncle Roger Haiyaaaa on them when I see how they're executed. The don't use thermal cameras and they don't even hold the phones in their had. There was this other video where the reviewer stress tested all gaming phones and the Lenovo Legion Duel 2 saw some throttling despite having two fans. How is that possible? Because the reviewer had placed it on the table, blocking the airflow. And in Lenovos defense, this is an unlikely scenario during long and intensive load. But most users watching this video won't question it.
The fact that you're apparently completely oblivious about the current state of the Rog5 is worrysome to say the least. Infact what triggers the throttling is mostly GPU power draw, NOT cpu power draw. You keep mentioning CPU throttling but that's not the issue here. If you strain the SoC which the GPU part drains most power from, it will trigger throttling. This will cause unstable frametimes and just a piss poor gaming experience, nobody cares about theoretical performance numbers, people care about stable performance. What makes this far worse is, that this is obviously exclusive to the Rog5, no other gaming phone has this behaviour. I already linked you the 3dmark stresstest as a perfect example, otherwise check out techutopias Rog5 video where he also shows how using doplhin and stressing the GPU will trigger absolute trash performance to the point where even the throttling xiami mi 11 ultra outperforms the Rog5.
As for the "some of the tests make you go "Haiyaaaaaa", same here. Absolutely agree that some tests are utterly useless. Like CPU stresstests or your example with people blocking airflow. As for thermal camera, honestly don't care for them, as they are based on infared lights meaning the more relfective the surface is, the most inaccurate it gets, I strongly prefer reading the sensors that the phone reports rather than some dumb thermal camera.
Regarding when I asked if you consider this phone an option. Maybe I was a bit unclear. I was talking about the RM6.
If i were only focused on performance yes, but I do count other things as well, I'd go for BS 4 pro if my rog3 would have died for reasons stated before.
Anyway, to answer some of your criticism. Our DAC measures better than any other phone DAC and some of the DACs we outperform has been marketed as an Audiophile DAC. Call it what you want, It's the best one out there if you don't want a dongle.
Exacly my point, you're very careful marketing it, you say its an audiophile dac, but never state anywhere the phone is for audiophiles because you know exacly that if you did that, audiophile reviewers would test that claim and utterly destroy the delusion. As you already confirmed, a high quality dongle will easily beat the Rog5. My argument was still while it certainly is possibly the best, it's not exacly a next level in quality vs other phones that use a tuned qualcom dac when you compare them. Spend less money in pointless things like a dac and more in good cameras, just saying.
And when you say "the terrible display of durability" I have no idea where you got this idea from. The display in ROG Phone 5 is the best ROG Phone display yet. Period. There's no proof of your statement, You can't just make things up.
What did I just read? Let me help you understand:
Terrible display of durability.
Terrible showcase of durability.
Terrible demonstration of durability.
I'm not talking about the display's durability. I'm talking about the whole Phone.... bruh....
I don't need to sell the ROG Phone 5 because I know which phone every serious journalist will pick as the best gaming phone when taking every aspect into consideration. We let the product speak for itself.
Exacly my point, you know journalists are not gamers, they will eat up your marketing like tasty pudding. You know that, that's why you don't bother. I mean perfect example here:
Boasting an industry-leading 300 Hz touch-sampling rate
source ASUS rog5 webpage
Meanwhile RM6 has 720 touch sampling, same as BS 4, yet you still claim you're industry leading with 300hz. It's a bold lie, but you still don't care because you know journalists are dumb.
Another great example of just lying:
Currently the world's lowest latency
source GSMarena Rog5 review
You have tested a 24.3MS touch response time, yet black shark 3 had 24ms, which is lower than your claim, and the BS 4 pro even has 8.4ms touch response time.
And yes, before you start to tell me things I already know, I am absolutely aware that these numbers basicially mean absolutely nothing, it's all marketing bs. It doesnt mean the Rog5 touch response is slower than RM6 or BS4 pro in actual gaming, altho it's still a possibility. Has to be tested more practcially to confirm or deny it. Not to mention how GSMarena also has disproven your delta < 1 claim as well, which I don't really understand. Just write delta < 2, I mean for fks sake no need to lie, Delta < 2 is still impressive for crying out loud.
My challenge to you was to showcase why anyone should pick the Rog5 over lets say the BS4 pro, yet your refusal gives us users a small insight about how much you actually care doesn't it?
There's no point continuing this conversation. If you still feel you've left something unsaid and you need to say it, then you're welcome to start a new thread.
Well here is my new thread and most importantly start arguing with facts instead.
Lets take apart his quotes shall we?
True that opinions are subjective 😉 What I meant to say is that everything I say will be seen as subjective.
Once you back it up with facts, there is nothing subjective about it, however I don't see you do that a whole lot.
Anyway, the truth is that most of what you say isn't correct. You get bits and pieces of information here and there looking at reviews, teardowns, forum comments (which aren't necessarily correct) and then you fill the holes with what you believe to sound logical. But it isn't facts. This is important to remember and it's easy to make this mistake. I've done it myself many times just to be proved wrong.
The thing is, if multiple reviews, forum comments and teardowns all tell the same story then you better come up with something better than "it isn't correct". How about you disprove the claims? Should be easy right? Do the test "proper" and disprove it? You won't do it as you know exacly that isnt the case.
None of the other brands have the same focus on the WW Rom as we do. The truth can only be told by someone who has used all of these phones as their main device and who has them all at hand to compare whenever they find bugs or differences in features. Everything else is purely based on whatever article or forum thread you might have stumbled upon. No other gaming phone brand has as many users outside of China as ASUS so you will ofc find a lot more to read about ROG Phone than any of the others. And regarding the ROG Phone 3 software charging issue. It has been solved. The reports you've seen since have all been hardware related and covered by warranty.
I don't doubt ASUS sells more phones outside the Asian market than other brands, but I fail to see how that is related to my point of poor software support. You're completely missing the point. As for the Rog3 charging issue, interesting statement. Since the complaints about the charging issue did decrease I would tend to believe it, so at least kudos for fixing that if it's true.
ROG 5 has VoLTE support for Telia in Denmark and maybe even the carrier 3.dk. It's great that your brothers old phone supports VoLTE but that doesn't say anything about their latest model as VoLTE needs to be approved by the carrier and model by model.
Little weird that you don't focus on the largest provider that is TDC, but then again taking denmark as an example is a little weird to begin with considering how easy we are to handle. However you're completely dodging my point. The example of voLTE is to demonstrate the lack of software support. Rog2 still has no proper VoLTE coverage, its a 2 year old phone. Whats the excuse there?
It's no secret that the latest SoC runs very hot and when it comes to stability/throttling during intensive workload like 3Dmark stresstest, you have three choices. 1. High fan noise 2. Burn your hands while gaming or 3. Accept that the CPU might throttle to keep comfortable temp but you will still have higher performance than ROG Phone 3. We're not in the business of making worse products. Then we might as well give up as our competitors will run us over. But I can tell you that some of these youtube tests makes me go Uncle Roger Haiyaaaa on them when I see how they're executed. The don't use thermal cameras and they don't even hold the phones in their had. There was this other video where the reviewer stress tested all gaming phones and the Lenovo Legion Duel 2 saw some throttling despite having two fans. How is that possible? Because the reviewer had placed it on the table, blocking the airflow. And in Lenovos defense, this is an unlikely scenario during long and intensive load. But most users watching this video won't question it.
The fact that you're apparently completely oblivious about the current state of the Rog5 is worrysome to say the least. Infact what triggers the throttling is mostly GPU power draw, NOT cpu power draw. You keep mentioning CPU throttling but that's not the issue here. If you strain the SoC which the GPU part drains most power from, it will trigger throttling. This will cause unstable frametimes and just a piss poor gaming experience, nobody cares about theoretical performance numbers, people care about stable performance. What makes this far worse is, that this is obviously exclusive to the Rog5, no other gaming phone has this behaviour. I already linked you the 3dmark stresstest as a perfect example, otherwise check out techutopias Rog5 video where he also shows how using doplhin and stressing the GPU will trigger absolute trash performance to the point where even the throttling xiami mi 11 ultra outperforms the Rog5.
As for the "some of the tests make you go "Haiyaaaaaa", same here. Absolutely agree that some tests are utterly useless. Like CPU stresstests or your example with people blocking airflow. As for thermal camera, honestly don't care for them, as they are based on infared lights meaning the more relfective the surface is, the most inaccurate it gets, I strongly prefer reading the sensors that the phone reports rather than some dumb thermal camera.
Regarding when I asked if you consider this phone an option. Maybe I was a bit unclear. I was talking about the RM6.
If i were only focused on performance yes, but I do count other things as well, I'd go for BS 4 pro if my rog3 would have died for reasons stated before.
Anyway, to answer some of your criticism. Our DAC measures better than any other phone DAC and some of the DACs we outperform has been marketed as an Audiophile DAC. Call it what you want, It's the best one out there if you don't want a dongle.
Exacly my point, you're very careful marketing it, you say its an audiophile dac, but never state anywhere the phone is for audiophiles because you know exacly that if you did that, audiophile reviewers would test that claim and utterly destroy the delusion. As you already confirmed, a high quality dongle will easily beat the Rog5. My argument was still while it certainly is possibly the best, it's not exacly a next level in quality vs other phones that use a tuned qualcom dac when you compare them. Spend less money in pointless things like a dac and more in good cameras, just saying.
And when you say "the terrible display of durability" I have no idea where you got this idea from. The display in ROG Phone 5 is the best ROG Phone display yet. Period. There's no proof of your statement, You can't just make things up.
What did I just read? Let me help you understand:
Terrible display of durability.
Terrible showcase of durability.
Terrible demonstration of durability.
I'm not talking about the display's durability. I'm talking about the whole Phone.... bruh....
I don't need to sell the ROG Phone 5 because I know which phone every serious journalist will pick as the best gaming phone when taking every aspect into consideration. We let the product speak for itself.
Exacly my point, you know journalists are not gamers, they will eat up your marketing like tasty pudding. You know that, that's why you don't bother. I mean perfect example here:
Boasting an industry-leading 300 Hz touch-sampling rate
source ASUS rog5 webpage
Meanwhile RM6 has 720 touch sampling, same as BS 4, yet you still claim you're industry leading with 300hz. It's a bold lie, but you still don't care because you know journalists are dumb.
Another great example of just lying:
Currently the world's lowest latency
source GSMarena Rog5 review
You have tested a 24.3MS touch response time, yet black shark 3 had 24ms, which is lower than your claim, and the BS 4 pro even has 8.4ms touch response time.
And yes, before you start to tell me things I already know, I am absolutely aware that these numbers basicially mean absolutely nothing, it's all marketing bs. It doesnt mean the Rog5 touch response is slower than RM6 or BS4 pro in actual gaming, altho it's still a possibility. Has to be tested more practcially to confirm or deny it. Not to mention how GSMarena also has disproven your delta < 1 claim as well, which I don't really understand. Just write delta < 2, I mean for fks sake no need to lie, Delta < 2 is still impressive for crying out loud.
My challenge to you was to showcase why anyone should pick the Rog5 over lets say the BS4 pro, yet your refusal gives us users a small insight about how much you actually care doesn't it?
There's no point continuing this conversation. If you still feel you've left something unsaid and you need to say it, then you're welcome to start a new thread.
Well here is my new thread and most importantly start arguing with facts instead.
14 REPLIES 14
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05-12-2021 03:56 PM
Anders_ASUSShouldn't you have spoke to EE when you released the Rog phone originally ? Why wait 3 or 4 years before approaching EE? Doesn't make sense.https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166632#Comment_166632
I know that's the temp and tbh, I've already asked our engineers about this. Might take a while before I get a reply. Until then, I'm not going to speculate into why as any assumption is most likely wrong.
https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166648#Comment_166648
What have we lied about? It has hardware support for VoLTE. This is true and not a lie. But just because it has the hardware, doesn't mean that it will work as VoLTE needs software support too. This requires support from the carrier. I don't know the current status for EE but I do know that in general it's a long tedious process to get approval unless we're one of the bigger brands and unfortunately, we're not. Not yet.
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05-12-2021 05:02 PM
Anders_ASUSI absolutely love how the ROG Phone 5 is a gaming spec monster with 3.5mm headphone jack, dual front facing stereo speakers, 144Hz AMOLED Samsung display, massive batteries, and fun features like theme packs. I also love how ASUS also worked with Unity to make it convenient for game developers to optimize their games for ROG Phones. However, please hear me out with what I'm about to say and please deliver feedback to developers.https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166632#Comment_166632
I know that's the temp and tbh, I've already asked our engineers about this. Might take a while before I get a reply. Until then, I'm not going to speculate into why as any assumption is most likely wrong.
https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166648#Comment_166648
What have we lied about? It has hardware support for VoLTE. This is true and not a lie. But just because it has the hardware, doesn't mean that it will work as VoLTE needs software support too. This requires support from the carrier. I don't know the current status for EE but I do know that in general it's a long tedious process to get approval unless we're one of the bigger brands and unfortunately, we're not. Not yet.
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The ROG Phone series needs to first and foremost be a fully functioning phone before prioritizing gaming gimmicks. People play mobile games because everybody has phones (I hate to say this as a PC gamer who memes about the Diablo Immortal controversy) not because of how awesome phones are for gaming. And everybody has phones because they need it to stay connected to networks and be able to receive calls and texts properly. Informed buyers and power users (ASUS target audience) aren't going to want a gaming phone that can't even comply to 2020 network standards such as making sure that VoLTE and 5G are enabled.
I highly recommend allocating most resources into actually working with carriers to make sure the device can comply with 2020 phone standards. In gaming terms, just tunnel vision the hell out of making sure the ROG Phone is supported by carriers (you can start with T-Mobile 😆) and making sure that software works as intended. Gaming R&D can take a break for now since the gaming features are already good, just make sure that the device complies with modern phone standards.
Think ASUS, why would people buy an ROG Phone if 5G and VoLTE won't work when they can just get another phone that can connect to 5G and still play games with. Carrier support needs to be the #1 priority, everything else should temporarily take a back seat.
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05-13-2021 01:54 AM
Anders_ASUSI've just been on the phone to EE and they've confirmed that you're basically lying 🤣 they said that no phone manufacturer needs to approach them to activate VOLTE. They said that there volte works as long as the phone supports it. So looks like Asus are messing us around. EE Are a massive network, biggest in the UK and they have absolutely no reason to liehttps://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166632#Comment_166632
I know that's the temp and tbh, I've already asked our engineers about this. Might take a while before I get a reply. Until then, I'm not going to speculate into why as any assumption is most likely wrong.
https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166648#Comment_166648
What have we lied about? It has hardware support for VoLTE. This is true and not a lie. But just because it has the hardware, doesn't mean that it will work as VoLTE needs software support too. This requires support from the carrier. I don't know the current status for EE but I do know that in general it's a long tedious process to get approval unless we're one of the bigger brands and unfortunately, we're not. Not yet.
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05-13-2021 02:00 AM
waxy78611ehhhhhhhhhhh, I would be a little careful about taking customer support as a source. If you had a call with an actual technichian the story would be different, but you probably talk with customer support who have a very high chance of spreading nonsense. So I wouldnt be calling out on ASUS because of what a customer support says, it is a fact that a small percentage has VoLTE support on their Rog5, so the phone does have the feature, if what EE says its true it should work but it doesnt, so I would doubt the supporters story.https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166665#Comment_166665
I've just been on the phone to EE and they've confirmed that you're basically lying 🤣 they said that no phone manufacturer needs to approach them to activate VOLTE. They said that there volte works as long as the phone supports it. So looks like Asus are messing us around. EE Are a massive network, biggest in the UK and they have absolutely no reason to lie
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05-13-2021 02:04 AM
DanishbluntI was on the phone to a technician 🙂 I'm on contract and they said that volte should work on every phone I put my SIM on long as it's volte capable. The technician did a diagnostics, updated my network settings, infact I'm still on the phone to them, no luck yet.https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/166738#Comment_166738
ehhhhhhhhhhh, I would be a little careful about taking customer support as a source. If you had a call with an actual technichian the story would be different, but you probably talk with customer support who have a very high chance of spreading nonsense. So I wouldnt be calling out on ASUS because of what a customer support says, it is a fact that a small percentage has VoLTE support on their Rog5, so the phone does have the feature, if what EE says its true it should work but it doesnt, so I would doubt the supporters story.
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What they've said is that no manufacturers need to "approach" them, which is what ANDERS has been telling us. They said if the phone has the volte feature it should work instantly. And they're right, I put my SIM in a Samsung, Huawei and iPhone, volte works instantly. But Asus as usual is having issues. Trust me, we've been lied to. EE are massive, biggest network, they wouldn't mess us around bud
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