Black Crush explained ( Rog3 / OP 8 )

DanishbluntDanishblunt Level 4
edited December 2020 in ROG Phone 3

youtube.com/watch?v=8EoRnfA1cK0

Here is an explanation as to why black crush is happening and how Asus can fix it. It also explains how this is NOT a hardware defect even with an example.

I hope this will clearify a great deal and that you guys need to stop spreading weird nonsense like its caused by high refreshrate screens, hardware defect or that asus cheaped out on displays. Just chill a little bit and let asus fix it, and Asus you need to stop the hotfixes, it's seriously doing more damage than good.

Hope to see much less black crush topics as it's really getting old by now.

«1345

Comments

  • @nightmaster552

    Thanks for taking the time to make your video. You bring up some good points at the end about our current method of communicating progress on known issues. We're always looking to improve and user feedback is always welcomed, so thanks for that. 👍️

  • Well as a software developer I am able to see the situation from both sides. Issues like these especially on new technology can be a very finicky to work with and confusion about a subject will more than likely cause some misunderstanding and frustration.

    I do therefore also understand that you simply cannot display to much information on issues as a lot of times causes can not be pinpointed 100% and by being to transparent will make more misunderstandings and cause very unrealistic expectations on future fixes, that being said there has to be at the very least some transparency on what you are working, as otherwise the community will think nothing is being done and keep spamming forums and causing unnessecary commotion.

    The only reason I made the video (unlike issues on my previous razer phone) was simply because I do have faith in you guys caring enough to fix issues when presented in a productive way. The fact that the video already reached a mod without going viral is a testament for you actually giving a damn. So I have high hopes, to soon being able to recommend the phone to everyone and enjoying a superior and properly calibrated AMOLED screen.

    Keep up the good work, I do have a pretty good idea on how much you guys have to deal with due to tons of people overreacting.

  • I thought all our screen is calibrated out of factory with delta less than colors, so shouldn't we won't have this issue? Unless it wasn't calibrated at each brightness.

    But then this would mean after each update I won't have accurate color for my screen because the update is a general calibration but not just for my screen?

  • It is NOT calibrated at each brightness level, because stock Android has no such feature. It has to be made by Asus themselves. LCD screens only need 1 calibration while OLEDs are more difficult. As explained on my video, Asus would have to implement color profiles on each individual brightness level and let every user calibrate themselves. Obviously Asus would add a "global" profile for all brightness levels but it wouldnt be 100% accurate as every single screen is slightly different even when having the same modelnumber and asking Asus to hand calibrate every single screen is absolutely not realistic without imensively upping the price.

    As for update, I'm not sure what you're saying, if they implement the feature in Splendid it shouldnt be affected by future updates in the slightest. Also the color accuracy on 99.999% of smartphones are completely off and oversaturated, if you attempt to calibrate an OLED screen to be accurate without doing it on all brightness levels you get black crush as a result. This is why OP8 pro and Rog3 suffer from black crush, because these screens are calibrated to show accurate colors but because of color shifting due to brightness or lack thereof it causes issues.

    This is something completely new, no smartphone has so far pulled of a color accurate OLED screen thus far to my knowledge, if you know an OLED screen that has pulled this off, I'd love to be proven otherwise. Asus could be the first to do so.

  • I realized once I toggle on the disable HW overlay I can now see perfect black on hdr videos now on youtube like before the update.

    Is black crush meaning heavy pixelated black pixel? It does not mean the scene is just very dark (but no pixelation)?

    If so I rather have asus keep the original calibration, I don't see black pixelation in dark scene on my screen, but do get annoyed when black now become grey and not pure black. In that case a lcd screen is better for even better color at each brightness.

  • DanishbluntDanishblunt Level 4
    edited October 2020

    Correct. Black crush means that scenes get pixilated. The dark scene behavior you talk about is mismatched gamma level, if you have a PC screen and put the gamma setting from 1 to lets say 0.6 (in NVIDIA, AMD or Intel graphics controller) you would make dark grey to black similair to what you see now on your phone, again this is caused by the fact that the OLED screens shifts when brightness is being adjusted.

    I agree tho, I prefer having black crush and extreme darkness rather than the silly transparent hotfix which ruins not only dark scenes but everything, but again, in a way by spamming Asus with black crush people are forcing Asus to do some sort of hasty reaction leading to this, so instead of causing a huge commotion, let Asus do a proper fix.

  • If ASUS not fix. And you make a app, don't matter if was paid or not. And root or not. Provide for who want this fixed. It's very annoying have this device with this issue

  • I can understand that black crush is a software issue. But do you notice the grain in the display increasing with refresh rate @nightmaster552 . Any idea on why it is like that? Since this is the first time I've seen something like this on a phone, it feels weird.

  • skailash2001skailash2001 Level 2
    edited October 2020

    I already made a discussion on that. Just search grainy

  • DanishbluntDanishblunt Level 4
    edited October 2020

    This is basicially again caused by shifting gamma levels. This is however common knowledge, by having higher refreshrate the colors tend to get a little more washed out. This is common even on monitors and it doesnt matter if its TN, IPS or OLED:

    overclock.net/threads/when-set-to-144hz-my-monitors-color-changes-but-the-settings-are-exactly-the-same.1530058/

    I think people start getting the picture now, fixing this issue isn't just a simple fix, it takes time and testing with multiple color profiles on brightness and refreshrate as well.

  • Yes I understand what you say. Every display looks different on every refresh rate. But on this display I can particularly spot the graininess more compared to other high refresh rate displays I have at home ( OP8pro, 144hz laptop). Are you able to notice the high graininess on your device?

    Anyway, I am sure they are working on the fix.

    Also thanks for your clarification @nightmaster552 .

  • Its more than likely due to the calibration pixelworks has done on the rog3 screen. If you calibrate a screen it will display more accurate colors and such, however if the gammacurve shifts you will get exacly these effects pixalation and graininess.

    As for if I can see it, yes if I put the screen on 144hz i can also see the graininess, however I do run my phone at 90hz nonstop due to not noticing a huge difference between 144hz and 90hz and having better battery life.

    Let us wait for a fix and enjoy our phones then.

  • Yeah I agree with you. I am using it on 90hz too and I am enjoying the phone very much. In some areas no other phone can match this. Now there is nothing left to do other than waiting. Thanks.

  • I got black crush even on 60 hz, what should I do, should I listen to your motivational speech. It seems you would not have bought with your own money... Just stop your nonsense, we are at least expecting acknowledgement from ASUS.

  • Did he say that black crush Is related to the refresh rate of the screen?no, he said that the black crush issue is related to the brightness of the display.

  • Nice to see that you didn't bother watching the video. Not only did I explain this is caused by brightness level, but the idea that I didn't even purchase it with my own money is extremely strange.

  • skailash2001skailash2001 Level 2
    edited October 2020

    Bro @nightmaster552 I just watched your video completely, and it was a very good explanation. I wanna appreciate you taking the time to explain the issue. Thanks for this.

    And @Gustav_ASUS and all other mods, if you are ever thinking that asking us users to calibrate our own displays ( even at every brightness level ) is asking too much of us, don't. I ( I can only speak for myself ) am completely ready to fully calibrate my display ( even if it takes hours ). I also think asking us to do it ourselves is far better than what we have right now. As you would probably know what to do by now, please do it as soon as possible.

    THANK YOU.

  • Sidenote, letting users calibrate the gamma level also has the nice side effect that those who prefer 2.4 over 2.2 get to enjoy their screens more as well. I prefer color accuracy, but some might want to have slightly different values, whatever the case may be, I think this could make everyone extremely happy.

This discussion has been closed.