Does Android 11 perform better than Android 12?

[ludecan]

I see quite a few posts mentioning bad performance on Android 12. I'm on Android 12 and performance is dismal. I've finished a playthrough of God of War with a constant 60 fps and now I get 30-50.
Does anybody know if android 11 performance is better?

[ludecan]

jasonwch

as from some posts before. Do hardcore tuning will help on performance to get rid of 45c limit as well.

But do play over 45c at your own risk as this is proven to make motherboard die in some time.

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That is the problem, even with hardcore tuning in A12 I would never get above 45C. This lead to low prime and big core usage and the consequent performance loss. Android 11 with the same settings boom 50C limit (this is the max I got, not constantly at 50) and no problems with CPU usage.
I have more info including the settings in this thread: https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/61889/rog-phone-5-throttling-performance-on-aethersx2

FunBike31

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/219983#Comment_219983

I can only validate @Danishblunt's answer

In the current state, it's fine for you 'in the short term' but no one plays with an ambient temperature of 10°, already when I speak of 20° I am told that it's playing in a freezer 🙂

50 ° in system temperature, not to mention the other components, it is 60-70% acceleration of loss of autonomy / battery capacity.

The 2 games you mention are not games but emulators that must run games, I can't say because I don't use an emulator but it's likely that a heavy native game like Gensing impact requires less resources.

On the other hand, AetherSX2 makes great efforts to optimize, Asus none for OpenGL / Vulkan, even the ROG 6 has the OpenGL / Vulkan libraries identical to the Rog 5 and that is unacceptable on a Smartphone specialized in games because the gain is not at all negligible.

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Yes, I agree I don't want to play at 50C for extended periods of time.
But 50C is actually the max I hit, without the fan.
With the fan I would get to 45 tops and most of the time be at 38-40C. However under this same temperature scenario, Android 11 gets full CPU usage, and Android 12 doesn't. It's holding back the prime and big cores, particularly the prime one, even when it won't hit more than 45C. That's what I'm saying is not properly calibrated.

Agreed that emulators make a heavier usage of hardware than native games. But cutscenes are not uncommon and those reduce usage to min. If I preemptively reduce performance to avoid potential future throttling, and then hit a cutscene, bam, I wasted performance for nothing. Throttling should happen when I'm close to the limit and not a lot before. if I forecast that I will be hot in the future, the longer into the future I look the more chance I have to be wrong.

Genshin Impact, and other popular applications, like Antutu, have a different performance profile and they can use the prime core no problems. I don't have A12 anymore to test but it would be interesting to see how Genshin Impact performs on it. Ie play Genshin for an hour or so on a CPU heavy zone. Observe using CPU float if there's high prime/big core usage and temperature.
If the phone doesn't throttle early and you do get prime core usage, then why does it throttle on Aether? High temps on Genshin should cause as much damage as high temps on any other app.
There's some app whitelisting going on here. Why not whitelist all apps managed by Armoury Crate and give the user the choice of what to whitelist within safe limits?

Also the change in thermal policy happening after launch is a big red flag. When I purchased the phone I did it based on the performance reviews done with A11. Some time afterwards, problems are found with the thermal limits and the solution is to drop performance so the phone doesn't die? This is bad testing at launch, that didn't catch the issues, but also the proposed solution is at the expense of the consumer. To avoid your phone from dying, I'm going to make it perform worse than a phone that costs half as much. Bad red flag.
Also, I only make it perform worse on non popular applications? Cause Genshin can use the full hardware? Maybe this is a bug or an oversight and not a cheap solution then. Hopefully this situation can be fixed.

Danishblunt

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220081#Comment_220081

This is something that still blows my mind to this date. Gaming phone that doesnt update its graphic drivers is just weird as hell. When I updated drivers manually the result was a much smoother gaming experience.

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I agree, this is incredible. From what I read v615 drivers would mean about 20% extra performance within the same thermal envelope! Performance for free, but we don't have it.

[Danishblunt]

ludecan

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220470#Comment_220470

That is the problem, even with hardcore tuning in A12 I would never get above 45C. This lead to low prime and big core usage and the consequent performance loss. Android 11 with the same settings boom 50C limit (this is the max I got, not constantly at 50) and no problems with CPU usage.

I have more info including the settings in this thread: https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/61889/rog-phone-5-throttling-performance-on-aethersx2

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220081#Comment_220081

Yes, I agree I don't want to play at 50C for extended periods of time.

But 50C is actually the max I hit, without the fan.

With the fan I would get to 45 tops and most of the time be at 38-40C. However under this same temperature scenario, Android 11 gets full CPU usage, and Android 12 doesn't. It's holding back the prime and big cores, particularly the prime one, even when it won't hit more than 45C. That's what I'm saying is not properly calibrated.

Agreed that emulators make a heavier usage of hardware than native games. But cutscenes are not uncommon and those reduce usage to min. If I preemptively reduce performance to avoid potential future throttling, and then hit a cutscene, bam, I wasted performance for nothing. Throttling should happen when I'm close to the limit and not a lot before. if I forecast that I will be hot in the future, the longer into the future I look the more chance I have to be wrong.

Genshin Impact, and other popular applications, like Antutu, have a different performance profile and they can use the prime core no problems. I don't have A12 anymore to test but it would be interesting to see how Genshin Impact performs on it. Ie play Genshin for an hour or so on a CPU heavy zone. Observe using CPU float if there's high prime/big core usage and temperature.

If the phone doesn't throttle early and you do get prime core usage, then why does it throttle on Aether? High temps on Genshin should cause as much damage as high temps on any other app.

There's some app whitelisting going on here. Why not whitelist all apps managed by Armoury Crate and give the user the choice of what to whitelist within safe limits?

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220205#Comment_220205

I agree, this is incredible. From what I read v615 drivers would mean about 20% extra performance within the same thermal envelope! Performance for free, but we don't have it.

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Up to 20%, not 20% at all times, I have the newest drivers and not everythign is 20% more efficient.

As mentioned above, they did thermal limit to prevent it from dying. What you're doing will end up in a dead brick. ASUS has deemed 43c the limit where the phone can sustain itself without cooler without killing itself. If you keep running your phone at 45-50c then eventually this is going to happen:
Rog Phone 5 DiedAfter ASUS has pushed A12 update reports of dead brick Rog5 has been almost 0. As mentioned before, the main issue is that the Rog5 has terrible cooling design that without the fan is basicially an oven, all the parts get extremely hot and degrade rapidbly.

[ludecan]

Danishblunt

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220561#Comment_220561

Up to 20%, not 20% at all times, I have the newest drivers and not everythign is 20% more efficient.

As mentioned above, they did thermal limit to prevent it from dying. What you're doing will end up in a dead brick. ASUS has deemed 43c the limit where the phone can sustain itself without cooler without killing itself. If you keep running your phone at 45-50c then eventually this is going to happen:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/rog-phone-5-died.4275165/

After ASUS has pushed A12 update reports of dead brick Rog5 has been almost 0. As mentioned before, the main issue is that the Rog5 has terrible cooling design that without the fan is basicially an oven, all the parts get extremely hot and degrade rapidbly.

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If it dies, it dies, and I'm getting a Red Magic phone. After all I want a phone for gaming right?
I guess I don't prefer a dead brick to the Mi11x, but I won't accept having a gaming phone that can't game.
I understand why they dropped the thermal limits. It's one way to prevent damage yes. It's also a cheap one. The consumer pays the price of ASUS not having proper materials or properly calibrating their thermals. And there are other ways to work around the issue too.
I guess we're saying the same thing. Only, as a customer, I'm not accepting ASUS' solution. I'm pissed because I don't accept my counterpart in a deal worsening the deal unilaterally. As mentioned before, A12 performance is not the performance I paid for when the ROG Phone 5 was advertised.
And also, why is Genshin allowed to thermally damage my phone but Aether is not? Is it because it's used regularly in reviews?

[Danishblunt]

ludecan

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220568#Comment_220568

If it dies, it dies, and I'm getting a Red Magic phone. After all I want a phone for gaming right?

I guess I don't prefer a dead brick to the Mi11x, but I won't accept having a gaming phone that can't game.

I understand why they dropped the thermal limits. It's one way to prevent damage yes. It's also a cheap one. The consumer pays the price of ASUS not having proper materials or properly calibrating their thermals. And there are other ways to work around the issue too.

I guess we're saying the same thing. Only, as a customer, I'm not accepting ASUS' solution. I'm pissed because I don't accept my counterpart in a deal worsening the deal unilaterally. As mentioned before, A12 performance is not the performance I paid for when the ROG Phone 5 was advertised.

And also, why is Genshin allowed to thermally damage my phone but Aether is not? Is it because it's used regularly in reviews?

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Common sense would dictate to return or sell the device when unhappy with it. Not sure what "proper" materials is even supposed to mean. A bad cooling design has little to do with materials.
Again, a normal consumer would return the phone when unhappy. I'm not sure why so many people seem to think they are forced to hold onto something they are unhappy with.
I'm also not even sure what you even mean with the last paragraph.

[ludecan]

Danishblunt

https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/220587#Comment_220587

Common sense would dictate to return or sell the device when unhappy with it. Not sure what "proper" materials is even supposed to mean. A bad cooling design has little to do with materials.

Again, a normal consumer would return the phone when unhappy. I'm not sure why so many people seem to think they are forced to hold onto something they are unhappy with.

I'm also not even sure what you even mean with the last paragraph.

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Proper materials was a simplification, proper thermals would have been a better wording.
I am only unhappy with it after the software updates and corresponding performance loss. Can I return my phone a year after purchase when I found out what the cause of the performance loss was? Could I have months after, when A12 was released? Will I get my money back? Doesn't look very likely...
Selling it is only passing the problem on to another person which I wouldn't do.
The last paragraph is that Genshin Impact, Antutu, Geekbench and other popular games or benchmarking apps have no limitations on prime core usage. Why are some apps allowed full hardware usage and some aren't?
And don't think it's because of thermals, the phone is below 40C, cooler attached, Genshin uses prime core, Aether doesn't.