Rog 5 topic part 2

DanishbluntDanishblunt Level 4
edited June 12 in ROG Phone 5

Since Anders has a strong tendency to simply post a reply and lock threads so that he has the last word in the hopes that nobody can correct his reply I decided lets have another go!

Lets take apart his quotes shall we?

True that opinions are subjective ;) What I meant to say is that everything I say will be seen as subjective.

Once you back it up with facts, there is nothing subjective about it, however I don't see you do that a whole lot.

Anyway, the truth is that most of what you say isn't correct. You get bits and pieces of information here and there looking at reviews, teardowns, forum comments (which aren't necessarily correct) and then you fill the holes with what you believe to sound logical. But it isn't facts. This is important to remember and it's easy to make this mistake. I've done it myself many times just to be proved wrong.

The thing is, if multiple reviews, forum comments and teardowns all tell the same story then you better come up with something better than "it isn't correct". How about you disprove the claims? Should be easy right? Do the test "proper" and disprove it? You won't do it as you know exacly that isnt the case.

None of the other brands have the same focus on the WW Rom as we do. The truth can only be told by someone who has used all of these phones as their main device and who has them all at hand to compare whenever they find bugs or differences in features. Everything else is purely based on whatever article or forum thread you might have stumbled upon. No other gaming phone brand has as many users outside of China as ASUS so you will ofc find a lot more to read about ROG Phone than any of the others. And regarding the ROG Phone 3 software charging issue. It has been solved. The reports you've seen since have all been hardware related and covered by warranty.

I don't doubt ASUS sells more phones outside the Asian market than other brands, but I fail to see how that is related to my point of poor software support. You're completely missing the point. As for the Rog3 charging issue, interesting statement. Since the complaints about the charging issue did decrease I would tend to believe it, so at least kudos for fixing that if it's true.

ROG 5 has VoLTE support for Telia in Denmark and maybe even the carrier 3.dk. It's great that your brothers old phone supports VoLTE but that doesn't say anything about their latest model as VoLTE needs to be approved by the carrier and model by model.

Little weird that you don't focus on the largest provider that is TDC, but then again taking denmark as an example is a little weird to begin with considering how easy we are to handle. However you're completely dodging my point. The example of voLTE is to demonstrate the lack of software support. Rog2 still has no proper VoLTE coverage, its a 2 year old phone. Whats the excuse there?


It's no secret that the latest SoC runs very hot and when it comes to stability/throttling during intensive workload like 3Dmark stresstest, you have three choices. 1. High fan noise 2. Burn your hands while gaming or 3. Accept that the CPU might throttle to keep comfortable temp but you will still have higher performance than ROG Phone 3. We're not in the business of making worse products. Then we might as well give up as our competitors will run us over. But I can tell you that some of these youtube tests makes me go Uncle Roger Haiyaaaa on them when I see how they're executed. The don't use thermal cameras and they don't even hold the phones in their had. There was this other video where the reviewer stress tested all gaming phones and the Lenovo Legion Duel 2 saw some throttling despite having two fans. How is that possible? Because the reviewer had placed it on the table, blocking the airflow. And in Lenovos defense, this is an unlikely scenario during long and intensive load. But most users watching this video won't question it.

The fact that you're apparently completely oblivious about the current state of the Rog5 is worrysome to say the least. Infact what triggers the throttling is mostly GPU power draw, NOT cpu power draw. You keep mentioning CPU throttling but that's not the issue here. If you strain the SoC which the GPU part drains most power from, it will trigger throttling. This will cause unstable frametimes and just a piss poor gaming experience, nobody cares about theoretical performance numbers, people care about stable performance. What makes this far worse is, that this is obviously exclusive to the Rog5, no other gaming phone has this behaviour. I already linked you the 3dmark stresstest as a perfect example, otherwise check out techutopias Rog5 video where he also shows how using doplhin and stressing the GPU will trigger absolute trash performance to the point where even the throttling xiami mi 11 ultra outperforms the Rog5.

As for the "some of the tests make you go "Haiyaaaaaa", same here. Absolutely agree that some tests are utterly useless. Like CPU stresstests or your example with people blocking airflow. As for thermal camera, honestly don't care for them, as they are based on infared lights meaning the more relfective the surface is, the most inaccurate it gets, I strongly prefer reading the sensors that the phone reports rather than some dumb thermal camera.


Regarding when I asked if you consider this phone an option. Maybe I was a bit unclear. I was talking about the RM6.

If i were only focused on performance yes, but I do count other things as well, I'd go for BS 4 pro if my rog3 would have died for reasons stated before.


Anyway, to answer some of your criticism. Our DAC measures better than any other phone DAC and some of the DACs we outperform has been marketed as an Audiophile DAC. Call it what you want, It's the best one out there if you don't want a dongle.

Exacly my point, you're very careful marketing it, you say its an audiophile dac, but never state anywhere the phone is for audiophiles because you know exacly that if you did that, audiophile reviewers would test that claim and utterly destroy the delusion. As you already confirmed, a high quality dongle will easily beat the Rog5. My argument was still while it certainly is possibly the best, it's not exacly a next level in quality vs other phones that use a tuned qualcom dac when you compare them. Spend less money in pointless things like a dac and more in good cameras, just saying.


And when you say "the terrible display of durability" I have no idea where you got this idea from. The display in ROG Phone 5 is the best ROG Phone display yet. Period. There's no proof of your statement, You can't just make things up.

What did I just read? Let me help you understand:

Terrible display of durability.

Terrible showcase of durability.

Terrible demonstration of durability.

I'm not talking about the display's durability. I'm talking about the whole Phone.... bruh....


I don't need to sell the ROG Phone 5 because I know which phone every serious journalist will pick as the best gaming phone when taking every aspect into consideration. We let the product speak for itself.

Exacly my point, you know journalists are not gamers, they will eat up your marketing like tasty pudding. You know that, that's why you don't bother. I mean perfect example here:

Boasting an industry-leading 300 Hz touch-sampling rate

source ASUS rog5 webpage

Meanwhile RM6 has 720 touch sampling, same as BS 4, yet you still claim you're industry leading with 300hz. It's a bold lie, but you still don't care because you know journalists are dumb.

Another great example of just lying:

Currently the world's lowest latency

source GSMarena Rog5 review

You have tested a 24.3MS touch response time, yet black shark 3 had 24ms, which is lower than your claim, and the BS 4 pro even has 8.4ms touch response time.

And yes, before you start to tell me things I already know, I am absolutely aware that these numbers basicially mean absolutely nothing, it's all marketing bs. It doesnt mean the Rog5 touch response is slower than RM6 or BS4 pro in actual gaming, altho it's still a possibility. Has to be tested more practcially to confirm or deny it. Not to mention how GSMarena also has disproven your delta < 1 claim as well, which I don't really understand. Just write delta < 2, I mean for fks sake no need to lie, Delta < 2 is still impressive for crying out loud.

My challenge to you was to showcase why anyone should pick the Rog5 over lets say the BS4 pro, yet your refusal gives us users a small insight about how much you actually care doesn't it?


There's no point continuing this conversation. If you still feel you've left something unsaid and you need to say it, then you're welcome to start a new thread.

Well here is my new thread and most importantly start arguing with facts instead.

Comments

  • I'm noting to get into a war of text battle so I'm just going reply some parts

    My point with who sells the most phones is that there are more users with a voice when something goes wrong. Simply that. And do you spend as much time in any of the other forums as you do here. Most likely not. This is why you get the feeling that we have more bugs but this is not the case. This is why you need to have all devices at hand to make a comparison. If you don't then you're just basing everything on a feeling that isn't scientific in anyway.

    You're right that it should not say CPU throttling as it is mostly the GPU working in games/3Dmark tests. What I meant was the SoC but for some reason I always say CPU throttling when I mean SoC throttling.

    ROG Phone 5 doesn't throttle because the thermal design is "bad" as you claim. It's because we tell the SoC to throttle at a certain limit. To keep the phone safe and the user safe/comfortable. We could remove/increase this limit and sustain the same 3dmark stability and we do increase this limit if you connect the AeroActive Cooler. Before you say "please increase the limit without the cooler" I can tell you that we won't because we had so many complaints from previous generations that the phone got too hot. We care more about the user experience than to win some performance test that doesn't mean much in the end of the day.

    The test you linked to in the other thread uses a black shark fun cooler so the ROG Phone 5 didn't know that it was allowed to increase its thermal limit. The other two phones don't care much about how hot they get but you won't be able to game if you can't hold the phone.

    Have a look at this test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgjwAjKBagk&t=728s

    Don't mind the BS4 as it doesn't have any cooler attached but look at the Var(FPS) as this is the most important number. What does this tell you?

    Sorry about the "display" mix-up 😉 and yes, as you say, all those touch sampling numbers don't mean much as there's no 3rd party to verify them.

    Please trust me when I say that the performance in ROG Phone 5 is solid.


  • My point with who sells the most phones is that there are more users with a voice when something goes wrong. Simply that. And do you spend as much time in any of the other forums as you do here. Most likely not. This is why you get the feeling that we have more bugs but this is not the case. This is why you need to have all devices at hand to make a comparison. If you don't then you're just basing everything on a feeling that isn't scientific in anyway.

    Forums no, telegram group yes. To sum it up:

    ASUS + RM6 users are mostly annoyed by bugs and issues. The 3rd party community for the RM6 does seem stronger than the ASUS tho, much more 3rd party people involved in making kernels and such.

    Lenovo legion + Black shark, community is mostly quite satisfied, there are some reports for issues here and there but most discussions revolve around boosting performance, settings, game discussions and so on.


    You're right that it should not say CPU throttling as it is mostly the GPU working in games/3Dmark tests. What I meant was the SoC but for some reason I always say CPU throttling when I mean SoC throttling.

    We are on the same page then.


    ROG Phone 5 doesn't throttle because the thermal design is "bad" as you claim. It's because we tell the SoC to throttle at a certain limit. To keep the phone safe and the user safe/comfortable. We could remove/increase this limit and sustain the same 3dmark stability and we do increase this limit if you connect the AeroActive Cooler. Before you say "please increase the limit without the cooler" I can tell you that we won't because we had so many complaints from previous generations that the phone got too hot. We care more about the user experience than to win some performance test that doesn't mean much in the end of the day.

    I absolutely do not advocate for higher thermal limits without cooler, that would be absolutely dumb. I already mentioned that in another topic where a guy wanted xmode to boost higher without cooler and I told him its a big nono with the SD888. The device gets without cooler already dangerously hot and extremely uncomfortable to use when using it for 10min+ in a game like genshin impact, making the thermal limits higher is only inviting to tons of RMA cases. However you still do not seem to understand the situation, so I'll make it very clear to you.

    Do you notice something? It's throttling despite system temps being as low as 33c. I keep telling you this, the Rog5 will throttle heavily when GPU is being used and causes throttling, wheter its possibly power IC being overloaded and overheating or the SoC being overheated, doesn't matter, in the end this a design flaw in your cooling system. As mentioned before, this isnt a single case, even techutopia tested with his doplhin test and has the same result, system temps were well withing checks, but it started throttling heavily.

    I think you start to understand why I complain about your "best cooling solution yet".

    The test you linked to in the other thread uses a black shark fun cooler so the ROG Phone 5 didn't know that it was allowed to increase its thermal limit. The other two phones don't care much about how hot they get but you won't be able to game if you can't hold the phone.

    I don't know about you, but if your cooling solution works as you advocate, even with lower thermal threshold, a system temp of 33c should not cause throttling.

    Don't mind the BS4 as it doesn't have any cooler attached but look at the Var(FPS) as this is the most important number. What does this tell you?

    Sorry about the "display" mix-up 😉 and yes, as you say, all those touch sampling numbers don't mean much as there's no 3rd party to verify them.

    The Var(FPS) as you mentioned is within margin of error, all phones perform about equal, except the BS4 pro for obvious reasons. If you rerun the test another phone will have slightly better scores than the others and so on. However here is the problem that you do not understand. Golden retriever has a really well ventilated room with low ambient temps and this is where we have the "game breaking" problem. The rog 5 seems to have been tested in a low ambient temperature enviroment.

    This video showcases how the Rog5 CAN sustain 3dmark with the xiaomi cooler. Before you mention it, yes I'm aware the moron blocked the airflow painting an absolutely dumb picture here on the Rog5 cooler, but my point is, IF the ambient temps are low, the Rog5 can perform like the other phones, however most of your customers do not have a well ventilated AC room and have much higher ambient temperatures, and this is where the Rog5 performance just tanks and stability becomes a problem.

    I'm not saying, up the thermal limits, I'm not saying, make the phone perform better, it's obviously a hardware problem where the cooling cannot cope once the ambient temps reach a certain level. All I'm saying is, take this knowledge with you when you create the Rog6, I'm not a hater that hates on the Rog5 for no reason, I'm a concerned customer that does not want the next rog to be a similair gimmicky phone, but something really substantial. When I see the 2nd display on the back I srsly had to wonder what the designer has smoked, like who puts their phone face down on a surface, it's like asking for scratches on the display.

    If you need some inspiration on how to do a proper cooling solution, look no further than the xiaomi black shark 3, it's ridicolous.

    When the Rog6 comes out, instead of focusing on gimmicks, focus on what matters, features that people actually care for, like actual buttons for shoulder buttons like the BS 4 has, upgraded camera lenses, maybe something like a transparent phone design which gamers fking love, something like a ridiclously fast IPS display, basicially like the Razer phones had just on steriods, Work on software to utilize your hardware better, for example, in the camera app, make a feature where it uses the main lens as a macro lens like on the oppo find x2, maybe something you see on the lenovo where it has a camera that gets out on the side for streamers, maybe some update GPU driver system like Samsung phones has and the list goes on, you could do so much, yet instead you add a display on the back on the phone......... like....... wat.

  • waxy78611waxy78611 Level 2

    I Like how you completely avoided the volte query. Just admit it, you're lazy and don't really care about customers. You've blatantly lied a out a feature all the way from the Rog 2. Volte is something a company like Asus can't configure, how ridiculous

  • I know that's the temp and tbh, I've already asked our engineers about this. Might take a while before I get a reply. Until then, I'm not going to speculate into why as any assumption is most likely wrong.

    What have we lied about? It has hardware support for VoLTE. This is true and not a lie. But just because it has the hardware, doesn't mean that it will work as VoLTE needs software support too. This requires support from the carrier. I don't know the current status for EE but I do know that in general it's a long tedious process to get approval unless we're one of the bigger brands and unfortunately, we're not. Not yet.

  • waxy78611waxy78611 Level 2

    Shouldn't you have spoke to EE when you released the Rog phone originally ? Why wait 3 or 4 years before approaching EE? Doesn't make sense.

  • AndroidAndroid Level 2

    I absolutely love how the ROG Phone 5 is a gaming spec monster with 3.5mm headphone jack, dual front facing stereo speakers, 144Hz AMOLED Samsung display, massive batteries, and fun features like theme packs. I also love how ASUS also worked with Unity to make it convenient for game developers to optimize their games for ROG Phones. However, please hear me out with what I'm about to say and please deliver feedback to developers.

    The ROG Phone series needs to first and foremost be a fully functioning phone before prioritizing gaming gimmicks. People play mobile games because everybody has phones (I hate to say this as a PC gamer who memes about the Diablo Immortal controversy) not because of how awesome phones are for gaming. And everybody has phones because they need it to stay connected to networks and be able to receive calls and texts properly. Informed buyers and power users (ASUS target audience) aren't going to want a gaming phone that can't even comply to 2020 network standards such as making sure that VoLTE and 5G are enabled.

    I highly recommend allocating most resources into actually working with carriers to make sure the device can comply with 2020 phone standards. In gaming terms, just tunnel vision the hell out of making sure the ROG Phone is supported by carriers (you can start with T-Mobile 😆) and making sure that software works as intended. Gaming R&D can take a break for now since the gaming features are already good, just make sure that the device complies with modern phone standards.

    Think ASUS, why would people buy an ROG Phone if 5G and VoLTE won't work when they can just get another phone that can connect to 5G and still play games with. Carrier support needs to be the #1 priority, everything else should temporarily take a back seat.

  • waxy78611waxy78611 Level 2

    I've just been on the phone to EE and they've confirmed that you're basically lying 🤣 they said that no phone manufacturer needs to approach them to activate VOLTE. They said that there volte works as long as the phone supports it. So looks like Asus are messing us around. EE Are a massive network, biggest in the UK and they have absolutely no reason to lie

  • ehhhhhhhhhhh, I would be a little careful about taking customer support as a source. If you had a call with an actual technichian the story would be different, but you probably talk with customer support who have a very high chance of spreading nonsense. So I wouldnt be calling out on ASUS because of what a customer support says, it is a fact that a small percentage has VoLTE support on their Rog5, so the phone does have the feature, if what EE says its true it should work but it doesnt, so I would doubt the supporters story.

  • waxy78611waxy78611 Level 2

    I was on the phone to a technician :) I'm on contract and they said that volte should work on every phone I put my SIM on long as it's volte capable. The technician did a diagnostics, updated my network settings, infact I'm still on the phone to them, no luck yet.

    What they've said is that no manufacturers need to "approach" them, which is what ANDERS has been telling us. They said if the phone has the volte feature it should work instantly. And they're right, I put my SIM in a Samsung, Huawei and iPhone, volte works instantly. But Asus as usual is having issues. Trust me, we've been lied to. EE are massive, biggest network, they wouldn't mess us around bud

  • So what you're advocating for is that ASUS themselves have a Whitelist for the VoLTE feature.

  • waxy78611waxy78611 Level 2

    All I know is that EE are always honest. Especially if you're on a contract, they take much more notice. Asus are up to something. Think about it, they haven't "approached" EE since releasing the first Rog which was a few years ago.

  • AndroidAndroid Level 2

    @Anders_ASUS stopped replying... 😞

    Please make carrier support the #1 priority for the ROG Phone series. The ROG Phone can have all these fancy bells and whistles but it's not going to mean anything if it can't comply with 2021 basic phone standards such as having reliable access to 5G and VoLTE. It's a shame because the phone looks really appealing due to the headphone jack and dual front facing stereo speakers.


    Aside from basic phone standards, it also looks like there's a phone coming out in Japan this year with 240Hz display. Maybe the next ROG Phone will also have 240Hz display (make this the #2 priority please). 🙏

  • AndroidAndroid Level 2

    It looks strange but interesting with that massive camera. It even has a headphone jack too which is a huge plus.

    The downside is that it doesn't appear to feature dual front facing stereo speakers and the article claims that it's likely to only be sold in Japan.

This discussion has been closed.